Donna L. Ferrier, Owner of Desktop Prepress Services
I am a regular guest speaker in online forums regarding editing and self-publishing. This was a chat that took place on AOL, February 2, 2009. I just opened up the floor for questions and answers, and I’m posting the chat here. The chat contains a lot of frequently asked questions and the answers to those questions. For confidentiality’s sake, the screen names of everyone except myself have been omitted from the chat log. Hope this helps. Take care.
Welcome. Our guest is Donna L Ferrier. Topic: Editing and Self Publishing’
Moderator: Our guest is Donna Ferrier.
Participant 1: Hi Gail, very well………..
Moderator: Welcome Donna to Writer’s Oasis again.
Participant 2: LOL Med
Moderator: Here is our Guest.
Participant 3: aaarrrggghhh, Med
DonnaLuise1: Good evening, all
Participant 4: Welcome to Writers Oasis Donna
Moderator: Bold pelase Donna
Moderator: please
Participant 5: LOL Medi –your in good tune tonight
Participant 2: ???
Participant 2: Shirley?
Moderator: We are in session
DonnaLuise1: My name is Donna Ferrier, and I’m the owner of Desktop Prepress Services
Participant 2: is there anyone in the other room?
Moderator: Muzzie is looking after Room 2, Mark
DonnaLuise1: I do editing, layout, and self-publishing for clients nationwide
Participant 2: oh, ok…
Participant 6: I will check.
DonnaLuise1: I’ve been an editor for 20 years
DonnaLuise1: 15 of those years was spent as an employee in various companies
DonnaLuise1: I started my own business in 2005
DonnaLuise1: I work on mostly Christian materials
DonnaLuise1: plus company materials
DonnaLuise1: newsletters, books, magazines, catalogs, ads, etc..
DonnaLuise1: At this time, I think I’m just going to do what I’ve always done in here
DonnaLuise1: and open the floor for questions anyone might want to ask
Participant 2: ???
Participant 2: is tonight disucsion have to do with “editing?
Participant 2: does….
DonnaLuise1: It’s editing and self-publishing, Mark
DonnaLuise1: So a question about either one is fine
Participant 2: oh…
Participant 2: ok
Participant 4: ?
DonnaLuise1: Yes, Interest
Participant 2: Shirley..I may have to change my discusion…
Participant 4: What does your company handle, as in starting with clients?
Participant 7: ?
Participant 8: Can you talk about the pros and cons of self-publishing
DonnaLuise1: Clients are mostly authors of Christian books, or company clients who put out company materials
DonnaLuise1: The pros of self-publishing: 1) you don’t need an agent; 2) you can get the book out faster
DonnaLuise1: Cons: 1) You do your own marketing; 2) You don’t get any revenues until your book sells
DonnaLuise1: And marketing can be difficult and expensive
Participant 4: ?
DonnaLuise1: Also, if you don’t know how to do the layout and cover designs, you have to hire someone (like me or someone else) to do that for you
Participant 4: Either way you still have to put a good amount of your own marketing in, right?
Participant 9: ————–+—+
DonnaLuise1: No. If you get an agent, they’re out there pushing your book for you
DonnaLuise1: And depending on your contract, you may get a certain amount of royalties up front
Moderator: Art question please
Participant 7: Do you do both line and content editing at the same time. Or do you do line first, content second?
DonnaLuise1: In publishing, getting agent representation is by far and away the best way to get published, if you can do it.
DonnaLuise1: Such a small percentage ever can, which is why people turn to self-publishing
Moderator: Mark and Cindy next
Participant 2: !!!!!
Participant 2: There is a “trade off”….
DonnaLuise1: you gotta do content first. Line editing something that you’re going to have to cut chunks of content out doesn’t work.
Participant 2: the goal..is getting your foot in the “publishing” door…
Participant 7: Thanks.
DonnaLuise1: I haven’t seen anyone get their foot in the door with a self-published book yet, though I’ve heard it happens. But I’ve never seen it myself.
Participant 2: I may be wrong…I frequently am…..
DonnaLuise1: It probably happens, but I haven’t seen it yet
Moderator: Cindy next
Participant 2: hmmmmmm……
DonnaLuise1: in other words, I’ve never seen someone self-publish and then get an agent out of it
Participant 2: ok, go Cindy….
Participant 4: Is self publishing expensive upfront?
DonnaLuise1: Depends who you hire. Most of the time it is, unless someone just wants to do it as a hobby. But I’ve heard rates of $1,000 all the way up to $10,000, though I think at $10,000 someone’s trying to rip you off at that point…LOL
Moderator: Welcome. Our guest is Donna L. Ferrier. Topic: Editing and Self Publishing’
Participant 4: alright thank you
DonnaLuise1: Plus you have to buy copies, Interest
Participant 2: !!!!!!!!
DonnaLuise1: Some self-publishers may include a certain number of copies in the price also
Participant 2: May I say something?
DonnaLuise1: sure
Moderator: Mark go ahead
Participant 2: There are Sooooo many “self-publishing” companies..
Participant 2: out there…
Participant 2: you REALLY have to do your homework…..
DonnaLuise1: That’s true for any professional you hire
Participant 2: I STILL get calls from these “so called” self publishing companies…
Participant 2: even AFTER i’ve already published…
DonnaLuise1: I believe it
Participant 2: BUT…..
Participant 2: once you get published….
Participant 2: you WILL be inundated by these “self-publishing” companies…
Participant 2: and..
Participant 2: IF..
Participant 2: you decided to go with one…..
Moderator: Welcome Krys
Participant 2: DO YOUR HOMEWORK…
Moderator: Always Mark
Participant 8: ?
Participant 2: most are just “rip offs”…
Moderator: ga Kathy
DonnaLuise1: Another thing: Look at the royalties they say they’re going to pay you. I’ve seen self-publishers take as much as 80 percent of a client’s book royalty.
Participant 8: can you explain the role of the “agent” verses the publisher please…
DonnaLuise1: The role of the agent is to sell your manuscript to a major publisher, like McGraw Hill, Zondervan, Harper Collins, Random House, etc.
DonnaLuise1: The publisher publishes the book
Participant 2: Donna? You left out “doubleday”…lol
Participant 8: thanks…I thought so
DonnaLuise1: I don’t know who actually writes up the contract; my guess is the publisher does.
Participant 2: The publisher writes the contract…
DonnaLuise1: The agent gets paid only if he/she sells your manuscript
Participant 2: always…
Participant 10: yes
DonnaLuise1: Watch out for agents who want money up front from you because they’re probably not legit
Participant 2: The “agent” gets a “percentage”…
Participant 8: so why bother have an agent?
Participant 2: So true Donna…
Participant 8: why not just pitch yourself
Participant 2: and agent should only “asks” for a percentage…
DonnaLuise1: Most major publishing companies will not accept manuscripts from authors directly
Participant 5: ?
Participant 10: 10-15 percent is the standard
Participant 8: ok, thank you
Participant 2: true sis…
Participant 10: for agents
Participant 2: BUT…..
Participant 2: you can “haggle” with our agent…
Participant 2: the bottom line is…
Participant 2: if YOU believe in what you have written……
Participant 2: it’ really doesn’t matter what route you take….
Moderator: Welcome Adam
Participant 2: IT WILL SELL!!!!!!!
Participant 11: They tell you even if you are a actor you need a agent
Moderator: ? for question, ! for comment
DonnaLuise1: That’s very important, Mark. An author has to believe in his or her own material, and so many of them don’t
DonnaLuise1: I get questions all the time about, “Do you agree with this?” or “Is it any good?”
Participant 2: So true Donna…
Moderator: ga Margee
Participant 2: If YOU don’t believe in what you write…
Participant 12: Hey there, Sunny D-light
Participant 12: Hello, Gail.
Participant 2: how can you convince an agent?
Participant 12: Findings, it’s great to see you.
Participant 11: Hi Adam
Participant 5: my question has been answered 
as to percentage an agent will get.
Participant 12: Krys of the Roz. Great to see you as wel.
Participant 12: Margee, my favorite bee. Love seein ya, love.
Moderator: Session in progress.
Moderator: Please be seated.
Moderator: ? for question
Participant 12: LaTina!!!!!!!!!!!! You’re a sight for sore eyes, hon.
Participant 5: thanks ya Brown –good seeing you
Moderator: Neva
DonnaLuise1: Always remember; if you’re the writer and you want to hire an editor, it’s not an editor’s job to agree with what you’ve written. The point is that YOU have to like it and agree with it.
Participant 13: hey adam good 2 c u 2…
Participant 14: Shirley
Participant 2: My Max is 40%
Moderator: Welcome. Our guest is Donna L. Ferrier. Topic: Editing and Self Publishing’
Participant 2: if you can get THAT….
Participant 2: go for it…
Participant 2: ok..I’ll shut up now…
DonnaLuise1: lol
Participant 2: Donna who you “LOL” at?
Participant 2: me?
DonnaLuise1: Yeah, you, Mark
Participant 5: <ggod info Mark>
Participant 2: oh, ok
Participant 2: joine the club…
DonnaLuise1: Anyone else have a question?
Participant 2: all mly ex’s do that….
Participant 2: and..
Participant 2: I have Jackets…
Participant 2: lol
Moderator: ? When is your manuscript ready for editor?
Participant 7: ?
Participant 11: all my Ex’s live in Texas
Moderator: Mrs.F Welcome
Participant 15: Thanks Sny
Moderator: Art is next
Participant 4: Krys, Neva, MrsFrency good evening and welcome
DonnaLuise1: Whenever the author thinks it’s finished. But they need to make sure they’re not going to add anything else before they get estimates on the editing. The amount of copy affects the cost
DonnaLuise1: Plus how much needs to be done to it
DonnaLuise1: And it’s up to the editor to know what it needs
DonnaLuise1: The customer usually has an idea
Participant 2: !!!!!
Moderator: Art go ahead
Participant 7: When you edit a book, how has your own instinct been as to how good it is and if it will sell?
DonnaLuise1: Sometimes it needs more than the client thinks, though, and sometimes less
Participant 2: !!!
DonnaLuise1: I have no way of knowing whether something will sell; that depends on how much marketing someone does and whether he/she has an audience for it.
Participant 2: !!!
DonnaLuise1: Mark, what’s with the !!!. If you have something to say, say it
Moderator: Welcome Sean
Participant 16: hello everyone
Participant 2: the protocal for the room is..
Moderator: Questions for Donna Ferrier. Welcomed
Participant 2: if you have a question or commment..
Participant 4: good evening and welcome locksley
Participant 2: you have to !!! or ???
Moderator: Mark ga
Participant 2: I have a comment…
DonnaLuise1: I thought you were supposed to type a ?
DonnaLuise1: Oh ok
Participant 11: Good evening Sean
Participant 16: hi Interest
Participant 2: Hi Sean…
Participant 2: Hi Interest…
Participant 16: hi Gail and Mark
Participant 16: Muzzie are you taking notes for an email later?
Participant 11: Thank you Seab
DonnaLuise1: What’s your comment, Mark?
Participant 11: Sean
Participant 2: It’s been my experience…
Participant 2: when you are working with your editor…
Participant 16: yw Gail
Participant 2: PAY very close attention….
Participant 2: but NEVER take “his/her” word for it….
Participant 2: from my own experience…
Participant 2: my own editor…
Participant 2: seemed to be looking for
Moderator: You do not have to accept the editor’s suggestions, Mark
Participant 2: continuity…
Participant 2: in the story arc…
Participant 2: and…
Participant 2: by the time I was done with the editing..
Participant 2: I added 6,000 more words to my story….
Participant 11: I agree what Mark is saying, you can listen to them, but you must have the top knowledge oeve them
DonnaLuise1: Ask them for editing samples before you hand over your work to someone
DonnaLuise1: I give people five free double-spaced pages
DonnaLuise1: That’ll help you eliminate the people you don’t think are qualified
DonnaLuise1: It’s always important to screen people: ask for resumes, look at what they’ve done professionally, and get an editing sample of your own work
DonnaLuise1: Most people don’t do any of the things I just said
DonnaLuise1: And many editors on the web have no professional experience outside of working out of their home
DonnaLuise1: Many have never been editing employees
Participant 2: you go girl….
Participant 2: good point..
Participant 2: that’s why you HAVE to do your homework…
DonnaLuise1: I saw a web page one time of an “editor” who was charging a lot of money, and her entire resume was that she liked quilting and suffered from depression
Participant 2: sounds like my ex….
Participant 2: lol
Participant 2: sorry….
Participant 2: I digress..
DonnaLuise1: I saw another one with a PhD who didn’t seem to do anything other than community newsletters (volunteer stuff)
Participant 2: please continue…
DonnaLuise1: I think I’m done on that point, Mark
DonnaLuise1: Any more questions?
Participant 4: ?
Participant 2: Donna?
Moderator: Ga Cindy
DonnaLuise1: Yeah, Interest
Participant 2: Go Cindy
DonnaLuise1: Sorry, Mark, she had her hand up first…LOL
Participant 2: I know..
Participant 4: I dont know if this is a proper question for here, but what’s a normal word count for manuscript?
Participant 4: lol
Moderator: Mark, settle down please.
Participant 2: lol
DonnaLuise1: I don’t know that there’s any such animal. I’ve seen everything from very short to very long
Participant 4: or should I say, good word count?
Participant 2: can I answer that?
Participant 4: alright
DonnaLuise1: I’d say when it’s finished, it’s finished, but if you have an extensively long manuscript, keep in mind that an editor may think it’s wordy and need cutting.
Participant 4: ga DrMark
DonnaLuise1: Most people are wordy when they write
Participant 4: ok thank you Donna
DonnaLuise1: Some more or less wordy than others
Participant 2: can I add something?
Moderator: Editing takes out useless words that inhibit the flow of sentences.
Participant 4: I”m thinking mine is not enough words
DonnaLuise1: Amen, Shirley
Participant 4: 45,000 words
DonnaLuise1: I don’t understand why you’d think that’s not enough
Moderator: I try, Donna. Do editing myself
DonnaLuise1: Sounds like plenty to me
Moderator: Take out passive verbs, is and are
Participant 4: I wasn’t sure, it’s the first time writing here lol
Participant 3: word count will vary with genre. Publishers will often state desired word counts on their websites
Participant 14: CINDY, add me to your buddy list… I’m trying to IM you
Participant 4: but thank you Donna
Participant 4: alright Neva
Moderator: Brag has a good answer
DonnaLuise1: Use active sentence construction most of the time; there are a few cases where it’s actually less confusing to use passive, but not many
DonnaLuise1: This is true, Brag
DonnaLuise1: Active construction: The dog chased the ball; Passive: The ball was chased by the dog.
DonnaLuise1: Active is much better and less wordy
Participant 15: Also cut out those ING ending verbs
Moderator: What about adverbs?
DonnaLuise1: I’m not sure I understand your question, Shirley. Didn’t know there was anything wrong with adverbs…LOL
Participant 8: good nite all. Thank you.
Moderator: Welcome. Editing and Self Publishing is the subject.
DonnaLuise1: Nite K1
Moderator: Night Kathy
Participant 2: Nite Kathy
Moderator: Donna, What is the biggest mistake you have found in writer’s manuscripts?
DonnaLuise1: IME, I myself look for flow of the manuscript as well as grammar. And like I said, I give clients five free double-spaced pages as a sample so they can see what I do. And if they like it, they can pursue a project with me. If they
Participant 14: 150,000 words… omit passives, omit ly’s, omit ing’s… Dang, now it’s a 50,000 word ms!
DonnaLuise1: don’t, they can look for another editor who might be a better fit for their project
DonnaLuise1: Or, I can adjust what I do to accommodate them
Participant 2: lol Imma
Moderator: That is what is needed, Donna. Show your editing work
DonnaLuise1: Oh, Shirley, I’ve edited manuscripts from people whose English is their second language, and those are the worst.
Participant 2: lol Donna…
DonnaLuise1: Can you imagine editing an entire manuscript of broken English?
Moderator: I suppose so
DonnaLuise1: I’ve done it…twice in the past year
Participant 2: I have a question…..
DonnaLuise1: Sure, Mark
Moderator: Was this for a novel?
Participant 2: and if anyone is going to be here for my discusion Wed night…
Participant 2: it’s a homework assignment…
DonnaLuise1: One was an autobiography, and the other was a book on spiritual counseling from a PhD from Korea
Moderator: Mark, e-mail me please
Participant 14: What’s the homework, Mark?
DonnaLuise1: She hardly spoke English and ran her manuscript through one of those automatic translators
Participant 14: <~~~~~ ME
Participant 2: ok
DonnaLuise1: It was a total mess
Participant 2: her it is…
Participant 2: Sorry Donna…
Participant 2: please continue…
DonnaLuise1: I’m finished witParticipant 2: her it is…
Participant 2: Sorry Donna…
Participant 2: please continue…
DonnaLuise1: I’m finished with that one; go ahead, Mark if you have another question
Moderator: I feel sorry for you, Donna. A real challenge! I hope you got paid for it well.
Participant 2: NOT a question…
Participant 2: a “homework” assignement..
Participant 2: on the importance of “editing”…
Participant 2: may I? Shirley?
Moderator: ga Mark
DonnaLuise1: The woman who wrote the autobiography bounced the check on me, and I had to go through the state attorney’s office to get paid.
Participant 2: is Margee going to send out a log?
DonnaLuise1: The Korean woman paid me, but she was a bit of a loose cannon
Participant 5: Not Margee on logging
Participant 2: Joine the club Donna ….we have “Jackets”…
Participant 2: oh, ok
Participant 2: who’s doing the log tonight?
Participant 6: Neither is Muzzie
Participant 2: ok
Participant 2: well,……
DonnaLuise1: Getting paid can sometimes be difficult; almost no one pays on time.
Participant 2: then…
Participant 6: try Mywishforyou.
DonnaLuise1: They wait until the day the bill is due to send it out
Participant 2: well, there ARE those who write checks for you r book…
DonnaLuise1: I’ve debated whether to start charging interest for late payments
Participant 2: and “bounce”…
Moderator: Donna, what is your advice to a writer who wants to be published?
Participant 3: Thank you, Donna, Sunny–good night everyone You have seen all kinds. What is your advice
Participant 5: great presentation Donna — I must go light the campfires –y’all are welcome to come to Arts and Entertainment
Participant 2: Nite Brag
Participant 5: thnaks Donna
Participant 2: Thanks Donna…
Participant 5: night all
DonnaLuise1: I’d try to get an agent first quite honestly because if you can get one, you don’t have to worry about getting your name out there.
Participant 7: Thank you, Donna.
DonnaLuise1: If you can’t get one, then I’d think about self-publishing second.
Participant 2: I have a “homework” assignment…
Participant 4: thank you Donna for speaking
DonnaLuise1: And then, just make sure you hire good people with good resumes
DonnaLuise1: and good portfolios
DonnaLuise1: Don’t hire the one with the cheapest rate
DonnaLuise1: That can be a disaster
Moderator: In other words, find out who you are dealing with
Participant 7: Amen.
DonnaLuise1: Amen, Shirley
Participant 2: DO YOUR HOMEWORK
DonnaLuise1: Amen, Mark
Participant 16: lol Mark
Participant 17: thank you for the wonderful information Donna A very great presentation tonight
Participant 7: Feels like a tent revival here.
Participant 16: Well, I’m off. Thanks for getting me Shirley
DonnaLuise1: YW, Interest
Participant 2: I have a “homework” assignment…
Moderator: Night Sean.
DonnaLuise1: sure thing, Wish
Participant 2: if anyone is interested…
Participant 7: Gotta buzz back to work.
Participant 2: for Wed night…
DonnaLuise1: Klart, wait ’till we start singing…LOL
Moderator: Goodnight Art
Participant 17: did anyone want the log for tonight
Participant 7: Night all. Good to see you all. Great to hear Donna speak.
DonnaLuise1: Nite, Klart
Participant 2: Nite Klart…
Participant 2: That that is is that that is not is not is that it it is
Participant 2: THAT’S the homework assignment for Wed night..
Participant 2: write it down….
Participant 4: me MyWish, please?
Participant 2: you WILL be tested on it…Wed night…
Participant 2: *giggle*
Moderator: Thanks Donna.
DonnaLuise1: Sure thing, Sunny
DonnaLuise1: ttyl
Moderator: Goodnight everyone
Participant 2: Thanks Donna…
Participant 4: you all have a good night
DonnaLuise1: Bye all
Participant 4: bye
Participant 2: bye Donna….
Participant 17: goodnight everyone
Participant 15: Good night all
Participant 17: okies Interest
Participant 17: wills end it right away
Bauda: Night all
Participant 6: good night all.
Participant 2: ok..
